October, 20th 2017
Water Terra Fire (WTF)
Yesterday I read an article about Alan Stern, that quite frankly is nothing short of mind boggling.
I tweeted Alan to confirm this wasn't a misrepresentation of his thoughts and he confirmed it was pretty much in line with what he said.
It appears there's no limit to main stream media science speculation hype.
Here's a link to the Alan Stern article called "Why haven’t we had alien contact? Blame icy ocean worlds".
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I tweeted Alan to confirm this wasn't a misrepresentation of his thoughts and he confirmed it was pretty much in line with what he said.
It appears there's no limit to main stream media science speculation hype.
Here's a link to the Alan Stern article called "Why haven’t we had alien contact? Blame icy ocean worlds".
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Might ET be buried under too much ice to phone Earth? That’s what planetary scientist Alan Stern..., has concluded may be delaying our contact with alien civilizations.
Most extraterrestrial creatures are likely deep inside their home planets, in subsurface oceans crusted over in frozen water ice, according to a new proposal... The hypothesis could explain the lack of signals from other technologically advanced civilizations, a conundrum known as the Fermi paradox. It’s only recently that astronomers have come to appreciate how common oceans are in our solar system; evidence for them can be seen on several moons of Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune, and even distant Pluto.... |
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Perhaps the equivalent of their “space program” would simply be boring through to the frozen surface of their planet, Stern suggests. His proposal wasn’t based on new evidence, but for the first time links up the prevalence of icy ocean worlds with the lack of alien signals.
The break downThese are the points I will address.
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Drake Equation
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Wiki quote >>>>>>>
Drake Equation N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f l ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L |
The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy. The number of such civilizations N, is assumed to be equal to the mathematical product of
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The equation was written in 1961 by Frank Drake, not for purposes of quantifying the number of civilizations, but as a way to stimulate scientific dialogue at the first scientific meeting on the search for intelligent extraterrestrial life (SETI). The equation summarizes the main concepts which scientists must contemplate when considering the question of radio-communicative life.
Criticism related to the Drake equation focuses not on the equation itself, but on the fact that the estimated values for several of its factors are highly conjectural, the combined effect being that the uncertainty associated with any derived value is so large that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions.
Plugging in unknown and mostly guessed at numbers, Drake came up with somewhere between a thousand and a hundred million advanced civilizations should exist in our galaxy. To avoid beating up on Drake, I will simply point out, items 4 through 7 in his equation are complete unknowns thereby making the product of this equation ridiculously impossible to treat with any degree of realism. But as the Wiki quote says, the equation was created to stimulate scientific dialogue not produce a quantified result. This equation, however, is often used to suggest our galaxy must be teeming with intelligent life.
In 1960 Drake performed the first Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence aka SETI with a project called Ozma.
For over fifty years we have been listening for signals from extraterrestrial intelligent beings with no success and the SETI program is no longer being funded and has been shut down.
Criticism related to the Drake equation focuses not on the equation itself, but on the fact that the estimated values for several of its factors are highly conjectural, the combined effect being that the uncertainty associated with any derived value is so large that the equation cannot be used to draw firm conclusions.
Plugging in unknown and mostly guessed at numbers, Drake came up with somewhere between a thousand and a hundred million advanced civilizations should exist in our galaxy. To avoid beating up on Drake, I will simply point out, items 4 through 7 in his equation are complete unknowns thereby making the product of this equation ridiculously impossible to treat with any degree of realism. But as the Wiki quote says, the equation was created to stimulate scientific dialogue not produce a quantified result. This equation, however, is often used to suggest our galaxy must be teeming with intelligent life.
In 1960 Drake performed the first Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence aka SETI with a project called Ozma.
For over fifty years we have been listening for signals from extraterrestrial intelligent beings with no success and the SETI program is no longer being funded and has been shut down.
To transmit signals through space, technology is needed. The technology we are familiar with that can perform this task is electromagnetic waves aka radio or light waves. Radio waves are generated by stimulating electrons in wire such that they produce magnetic pulsing field lines aka radio waves which travel at the speed of light. You need an element with a lot of free electrons such as metal wire and a method for oscillating electrons within the wire. Best lecture I've heard explaining radiation, magnetism, electricity, forces, fields, frequency, cycles, waves and more.
Nikola Tesla invented the first power generator at Niagara Falls where water moves a turbine which spins a coil of wires within a N/S pole magnet field. The wire spinning in the North then South pole field causes an alternating pulse of electrons which produce alternating current which is used to create radio waves.
Nikola Tesla invented the first power generator at Niagara Falls where water moves a turbine which spins a coil of wires within a N/S pole magnet field. The wire spinning in the North then South pole field causes an alternating pulse of electrons which produce alternating current which is used to create radio waves.
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To create radio waves, at the very least, you need wire and the ability to make electrons change direction.
Metal wire is extracted from rock via heat.
Metal wire is extracted from rock via heat.
Fermi Paradox
The Drake equation lead to the Fermi paradox which asked one simple question.
"Where is everybody?"
This is the basic question Alan Stern is attempting to address in the above article.
Most extraterrestrial creatures are likely deep inside their home planets, in subsurface oceans crusted over in frozen water ice... The hypothesis could explain the lack of signals from other technologically advanced civilizations.., Stern suggests
"Where is everybody?"
This is the basic question Alan Stern is attempting to address in the above article.
Most extraterrestrial creatures are likely deep inside their home planets, in subsurface oceans crusted over in frozen water ice... The hypothesis could explain the lack of signals from other technologically advanced civilizations.., Stern suggests
Life
There are obviously various levels of what one would call life, from microbial single cell to complex multi-cellular. Microbial single celled life can exist in some pretty extreme temperature and acidic conditions. However, large scale multicellular life forms need oxygen and more moderate temperature and PH conditions.
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A new study from McMaster University indicates the nucleobases of RNA a precursor to or simpler form of DNA could have developed in small warm pools on top of Earth's rocky surface. Nucleobases are the building blocks of RNA and DNA and are found in space rocks and molecular clouds. Quote scientists have suggested that the very first life forms were RNA molecules, because they're found in all organisms, contain genetic information, can act like a protein in some ways, and can self-replicate."They fit the most basic definition of life," <<<<<<<<<<< The dry wet cycle theorized to turn chemistry to biology. Early on when earth was forming, many space rocks seeded with nucleobases would have been delivered to Earth intact as there would have been a very thin initial non oxygen atmosphere. |
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As pools on Earth dried, the nucleabases would get pushed into more complex long chain RNA forms , rain or tides would rehydrate the pool and this cyclical process may have been the conditions needed for life to form. But this process of warm pool, condensing, compressing, refilling and repeating would be required for the RNA to become more complex. They point out, this process could not take place in an ocean as the drying of the pool is required to force the nucleobases into contact to form into RNA. Update Dec 31, 2017 >>>>>>>>>>>>> A new study out of the University of North Carolina indicates RNA may not have been the precursor to DNA but if I understand the new hypothesis correctly, the above small warm pools theory drying and rehydrating pushing nucleotides together could have still been the mechanism to initiate the formation of complex peptides in turn creating RNA and DNA. |
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Image credit; Me
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McMaster University is building a lab within a year to test this process experimentally. But the basic idea is that oceans don't provide the conditions needed to push nucleobases together.
You need land with pools and hot sunlight for the drying process. Locations with geysers like Yellowstone National park are perfect examples of this where microbial extremophile life exists. This microscopic life could have then been transported into the oceans. |
Single celled bacterial life existed about 3.5 bya, roughly a billion years after Earth's formation. The earliest known form of Multicellular life existed 2.1 bya, that's a 1.4 byr gap or time frame required for single celled organisms to make the jump to multicelled.
All animals, plants, and fungi share an ancestor that lived about 1.6 to 2 billion years ago. Every lineage that descended from that progenitor retains parts of its original genome. A gene is a stretch of DNA which holds specific instructions for an organism’s structure or function. The gene's in wheat are about 16 times more complex than in humans because plants populated the planet before animals.
Multicellular life has been around for about 2.1 byr (2,100 mya). The earliest sexual reproduction (ability to pass along DNA not simply by replication or duplication but rather by combination allowing for more rapid diversification hence adaptation to environmental challenges) took place about 1.2 bya (1,200 million years ago), 530 mya fish came into existence during the Cambrian explosion. Plants populated terra firma around 510 mya.
All animals, plants, and fungi share an ancestor that lived about 1.6 to 2 billion years ago. Every lineage that descended from that progenitor retains parts of its original genome. A gene is a stretch of DNA which holds specific instructions for an organism’s structure or function. The gene's in wheat are about 16 times more complex than in humans because plants populated the planet before animals.
Multicellular life has been around for about 2.1 byr (2,100 mya). The earliest sexual reproduction (ability to pass along DNA not simply by replication or duplication but rather by combination allowing for more rapid diversification hence adaptation to environmental challenges) took place about 1.2 bya (1,200 million years ago), 530 mya fish came into existence during the Cambrian explosion. Plants populated terra firma around 510 mya.
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About 100 myr later the alligator/salamander looking Ichthyostega crawled out of the ocean and onto land.
The creature lived in floodplains on what is now Greenland during a period known geologically as the Devonian period - about 360 to 410 million years ago. |
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Ichthyostega was about three feet (one meter) long the tetrapod - or vertebrate - looked like a cross between a fish and a crocodile nearly identical to a large Salamander.
One key distinction between fish and mammals is the vertebrae. This is why aquatic mammals like dolphins move their tail up and down while fish like great white sharks move their tail side to side. As Ichthyostega's descendants moved onto land, their need to run and jump evolved into a vertebral spine that could flex up and down not left to right. Then some of those mammals migrated back into the oceans but still retained their spinal motion limitations. |
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The Ichthyostega was very similar to the Chinese Giant Salamander which is alive today.
About 150 myr after crawling onto Terra Firma, Ichthyostega evolved into the great lizard dinosaurs.
The earliest Dinosaurs existed about 240 mya.
The dinosaurs were around for 175 million years and their brains never got much bigger than a walnut to a banana size.
They were the masters of Terra Firma for 175 million years,
About 150 myr after crawling onto Terra Firma, Ichthyostega evolved into the great lizard dinosaurs.
The earliest Dinosaurs existed about 240 mya.
The dinosaurs were around for 175 million years and their brains never got much bigger than a walnut to a banana size.
They were the masters of Terra Firma for 175 million years,
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The Dinosaurs died 66 million years ago from the meteor impact at Chichalu along with 75% of all animals on Earth. All large animals died from the Chichalu meteorite impact. Small mostly underground critters had to grow larger and adapt for the next 60 million years. The human species Homo Habilis 2.4 mya developed from upright walking apes from about 6-7 mya.
In a geological instant we, the Homo (one and the same) species have gone from mostly ape like to the most dominant intelligent species on this planet. If intelligence were a natural byproduct of life, single celled microbes would be the most intelligent life form on Earth followed by plants and ocean life since they had a massive timing head start advantage, instead all sea and land animals did not develop into technologically advanced life, only Home Sapiens (wise ape) humans. There were a very specific set of events that led to humans becoming intelligent, one of which was fire.
In a geological instant we, the Homo (one and the same) species have gone from mostly ape like to the most dominant intelligent species on this planet. If intelligence were a natural byproduct of life, single celled microbes would be the most intelligent life form on Earth followed by plants and ocean life since they had a massive timing head start advantage, instead all sea and land animals did not develop into technologically advanced life, only Home Sapiens (wise ape) humans. There were a very specific set of events that led to humans becoming intelligent, one of which was fire.
Intelligent life
Our technological explosion has only taken place in the last couple hundred years. We're not the most dominant species because we have claws, horns, tough skin, bigger teeth, better eye sight, hearing or smell. Its not because we can fly, crawl, swim or run better than all the other animals.
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Its because of our Intellect, the ability to learn and reason, to adapt and predict.
Determining what intelligence is, is not so easy.
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But as far as we know, we are the only animal that produces art, experiences empathy and can visualize into the future creating complex structures with our minds eye. Our ability to articulate concepts far exceeds any other animal allowing us to pass complex concepts from one generation to the next through speech and symbols (text).
How did we get so smart?
How did we learn to verbally articulate complex thoughts?
How did we become empathetic?
How did we learn to develop theory of mind?
There's one really interesting theory based on a genetic DNA flaw in a gene called MYH16 which is found in all humans but doesn't exist in apes.
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The researchers' new discovery involves a gene called MYH16, which had apparently gone unrecognized because of a small mutation that had rendered it inactive for producing some jaw muscles for chewing and biting.
How did we get so smart?
How did we learn to verbally articulate complex thoughts?
How did we become empathetic?
How did we learn to develop theory of mind?
There's one really interesting theory based on a genetic DNA flaw in a gene called MYH16 which is found in all humans but doesn't exist in apes.
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The researchers' new discovery involves a gene called MYH16, which had apparently gone unrecognized because of a small mutation that had rendered it inactive for producing some jaw muscles for chewing and biting.
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The scientists found that this myosin gene was still intact today in other primates, like chimpanzees and macaques, which have correspondingly strong jaw muscles.
An analysis of DNA samples showed the gene-inactivating mutation to be present in all modern humans worldwide. The analysis further traced the mutation's occurrence to a range of 2.1 million to 2.7 million years ago, probably 2.4 million. Ape skulls fully fuse closed within two years of birth with most having a sagittal crest. Once the skull fusses shut the brain can't grow any larger. Our skulls don't fuse shut until we are in our early thirties. This allows our brain to grow much larger. |
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The temporal muscles connect to the lower jaw and the side of the cranium, these temporal muscles create the crushing force for the jaw.
Larger temporal muscles along with a sagittal crest are needed for greater crushing chewing force and this indicates most of the ape diet is fibrous plant material or nuts and seeds. Like humans, apes have incisors indicating some portion of their diet is meat. |
Ape jaw muscles are so strong, if their skulls didn't fuse by 2 years of age they might risk having their skull pulled apart by these muscles as they chew on hard material. The first two years of their life, much of their nutrients would be provided by their mothers milk after that they can aggressively chew away on fibrous plants or crack open hard shelled nuts with their teeth.
With this MYH16 smaller jaw muscle genetic flaw in humans, our jaw muscles were weak enough to not accidentally rip our skull apart while chewing and at the same time allow the skull to grow over a much more extended period of time giving rise to a larger brain.
With this MYH16 smaller jaw muscle genetic flaw in humans, our jaw muscles were weak enough to not accidentally rip our skull apart while chewing and at the same time allow the skull to grow over a much more extended period of time giving rise to a larger brain.
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Home Habilis (2.1 to 1.5 Mya) is considered by many anthropologist as the first real human species which developed after Australopithecus an upright walking bipedal ape like species (based on hip and vertebral connection to the small brained skull) of which Lucy (one of the first upright walkers 3.2 Mya) was a part.
Australopithecus Sediba's tooth tartar demonstrate these upright walking ape like creatures mostly ate fruits, grains and fibrous plants lacking a need for stone cutting tools. There is debate over whether Habilis was the first of the homo (same) group. as some tools predate them but homo Habilis means "handy man". |
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This means Habilis developed and used stone tools like the obsidian (volcanic glass) stone axe for chopping as well as the stone knife for cutting meat. Homo Erectus is the first known species to control the use of fire 1.7 Mya.
Learning how to create obsidian tools today can take modern humans with verbal instructions ten years to master. It takes planning and an understanding of how current actions will translate into future results. You need to be able to consider how your current actions impact future events to build complex obsidian tools. |
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It is theorized this process developed language as well as cognitive skills since these complex forward thinking skills needed to get passed along from one individual to another.
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With the human genetic flaw MYH16 allowing skulls and brains to get bigger over time and the cognitive skills required for turning obsidian into tools along with the need for communicating these skills to future generations, it is thought this is what led to complex language, higher levels of intelligence and enhanced problem solving skills.
Since our jaw muscles were weaker than apes we needed to use tools to crush grains and bones to get at the marrow as well as cut hides for clothing. Since our jaw muscles were weaker our skulls and brains were allowed to grow larger to accommodate these complex learning needs. Homo Erectus (1.7 Mya) knew how to make obsidian tools and make fire thanks to a freak genetic flaw in our DNA. Three videos on this web site will give you a terrific understanding of our skeletal evolutionary history. |
Homo Erectus
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Technologically Advanced Life
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All advanced technology is based on at least three things;
To shape intelligent thought into technologically functional forms you need dexterous limbs. Hoofs, claws. wings and fins don't have the dexterity required to form and shape objects conceived by an intelligent mind. For this you need fingers and an opposing thumb something tree climbers naturally possessed. |
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Human foot vs. monkey foot. It's kinda freaky viewing a foot that looks like a hand. To be a tree climber you naturally need an opposing thumb along with tree branches to wrap the thumb around. Ice worlds don't have trees. Once we decided to walk upright, roam the land, shape rocks into tools and control fire, the need for a foot with an opposing thumb went away so our foot thumb became a big toe which aided in our ability to walk upright. Trees need land, soil, fresh water, sunlight and carbon dioxide. On Earth, as elevation increases trees gradually stop growing (tree line) due to a lack of water and heat. In other words, its cold and arid. |
As elevation decreases trees also stop growing. Trees don't grow in salt water or even in deep fresh water. There is a temperate land based zone with just the right conditions for trees to grow.
Water world moons covered with a crust of ice need to be far enough away from their parent star so that the ice remains frozen meaning the sunlight is too weak to melt the ice and too weak to penetrate it and too weak to illuminate the water ocean below. Photosynthesis would likely not be possible on these types of worlds. These worlds can only get energy from tidal flex or geothermal vents not sunlight. This means they are in perpetual darkness and completely water saturated.
Obviously there are no trees or plants growing on the surface of the ice ball worlds and without sunlight penetrating the ice crust the oceans most likely don't have plants either. Many of these ice/water worlds are super cold and need a toxic mix of ammonia and other anti-freeze chemicals. This is not to say some form of life couldn't exist under these conditions but I'm talking about creating fire and the complex conditions and materials needed to produce it.
Water world moons covered with a crust of ice need to be far enough away from their parent star so that the ice remains frozen meaning the sunlight is too weak to melt the ice and too weak to penetrate it and too weak to illuminate the water ocean below. Photosynthesis would likely not be possible on these types of worlds. These worlds can only get energy from tidal flex or geothermal vents not sunlight. This means they are in perpetual darkness and completely water saturated.
Obviously there are no trees or plants growing on the surface of the ice ball worlds and without sunlight penetrating the ice crust the oceans most likely don't have plants either. Many of these ice/water worlds are super cold and need a toxic mix of ammonia and other anti-freeze chemicals. This is not to say some form of life couldn't exist under these conditions but I'm talking about creating fire and the complex conditions and materials needed to produce it.
Image credit: Me, Chinese hot spring Yellowstone National Park. Orange stuff is extremophiles
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What would there be to eat without plants on a planet? While extremophiles do exist on Earth, they only exist in microbial or microscopic form. Theoretically life began on Earth in the ocean about 3.5 bya as bacteria but ocean life has not evolved to be intelligent enough to develop any technology. A very specific set of circumstances came together on Terra Firma (land) to produce intelligent life. |
Moving on to fire.
Every form of advanced technology has been born out of fire.
Fire is the first step in converting compounds from one form to another, as well as, extracting, controlling and manipulating elements.
Energy is neither created nor destroyed it is only converted from one form to another.
The most beautiful commonly experienced example of this statement is when wood is burning, actually wood doesn't burn.
Solids and liquids don't burn only gasses.
A pretty cool science related party trick to demonstrate at your next birthday is to light a match from a burning candle.
Every form of advanced technology has been born out of fire.
Fire is the first step in converting compounds from one form to another, as well as, extracting, controlling and manipulating elements.
Energy is neither created nor destroyed it is only converted from one form to another.
The most beautiful commonly experienced example of this statement is when wood is burning, actually wood doesn't burn.
Solids and liquids don't burn only gasses.
A pretty cool science related party trick to demonstrate at your next birthday is to light a match from a burning candle.
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Hold the lit match away from the candle then with a short puff of air blow out the candle so the smoke drifts upward in a column.
Then place the burning match into the smoke (gas) a couple inches away from the wick. The match flame will ignite the gas and travel down the smoke column back to the wick and reignite it. |
Why does the flame travel down not up?
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The heat from the burning gas causes the solid to release the carbon which then combines with oxygen giving off heat and light. The heat keeps breaking the bond of the carbon releasing it as a gas.
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The cycle of an atom (fission vs fusion)
Photosynthesis (fission = atom disassembly) and combustion (fusion = atom assembly) Sunlight energy is absorbed by a tree's leaf. The leaf breaths in carbon dioxide (CO2) through a nostril called a stomata. The tree's roots draw water up the tree through capillary action. The leaf takes the sunlight energy and separates the carbon from the oxygen (fission). The leaf exhales the oxygen and converts the carbon into cellulose (wood). A wood fire is the process of heat energy from burning gasses breaking the cellulose down so that the carbon is released. The carbon then combines with oxygen to form CO2. When carbon & oxygen combine, an explosion occurs releasing the Sun's heat & light. When you fan a flame you introduce more oxygen to the available carbon. This increases the number of fusion reactions which causes the fire to roar. |
Stomata
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Burning wood is sunlight energy being re-released from the wood in the form of heat and light.
Get that fire hot enough and it melts metals out of rock coalescing the metals into clusters of tin, copper, iron and other metals which become the materials we use to form a technological society. Our ability to make better tools increased with the use of fire. Without fire, no separating metals and no technology. Water worlds can't make fire. You need land, copious amounts of sun light and plants that can turn that sun light into storage packets like wood or coal. You also need intelligent animals with cognitive abilities to figure out how to combine all these elements to form technological devices. The intelligent animal needs nimble limbs with an opposing thumb. |
Alan Stern is suggesting that subsurface creatures inundated in water worlds without plants are intelligent enough and dexterous enough to produce an advanced technological society without fire.
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Is time the only requirement for intelligent cognitive abilities?
The dinosaurs had 175 million years to get smart but they didn't. All the creatures in the oceans have had much more time to develop higher intelligence but they haven't. A very specific set of circumstances led to our rapid rise of intelligence in a mere 2.5 My. Water creatures mostly have fins or claws. Cephalopods like the octopus, cuttlefish and squid have some nimble limbs and are pretty smart but they've never created fire or organized a rubik's cube. |
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They also don't really have a skeletal structure, put them on land and gravity squishes them into blob like mounds. In the water this is an advantage on land it is not. Cephalopods are basically a slug with a big brain used mainly for self defense magical camouflage techniques and this is the best a pH balanced water ocean has developed over the course of 3.5 billion years. PH balanced water is a known favorable compound for supporting complex life. While microscopic critters (extremophiles) can thrive in water that is strongly acidic or basic, larger complex multi cellular life is destroyed under these conditions.
Sunlight, CO2, photosynthesis, trees, ignition and oxygen are required to make fire.
Fire is required to first separate and then meld metals together.
Cognitive intelligence and language is needed to comprehend how to perform this feat.
A skeletal structure, nimble limbs and opposing thumbs are required to assemble complex structures.
Remove any of these and intelligent life becomes difficult to imagine.
I'm talking about technologically advanced intelligent life not microbes or bacteria.
Mankind's technological advances have been defined by our ability to use fire with stone.
We call them ages and they are named after the minerals and metals we extracted from Terra Firma.
Sunlight, CO2, photosynthesis, trees, ignition and oxygen are required to make fire.
Fire is required to first separate and then meld metals together.
Cognitive intelligence and language is needed to comprehend how to perform this feat.
A skeletal structure, nimble limbs and opposing thumbs are required to assemble complex structures.
Remove any of these and intelligent life becomes difficult to imagine.
I'm talking about technologically advanced intelligent life not microbes or bacteria.
Mankind's technological advances have been defined by our ability to use fire with stone.
We call them ages and they are named after the minerals and metals we extracted from Terra Firma.
Without fire there would be no advanced technology. |
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Subsurface water worlds with technologically advanced societies is a ridiculous concept as there is no sunlight, no plants, no fire and no ability to extract metals from rock.
Sorry Alan, I'm not buying it.
Sorry Alan, I'm not buying it.
Pluto's Ocean
Alan Stern even suggests Pluto might have a subsurface ocean within which an intelligent technologically advanced species might exist. I've covered at length on this site why I don't believe there is a subsurface ocean on Pluto but just this once I will pretend there is.
Bill McKinnon, a colleague of Stern and New Horizons team member says this about the theoretical ocean of Pluto.
The New Horizons team previously detected the presence of ammonia on Charon, and also on one of Pluto’s small moons. “So it’s almost certainly inside Pluto,” McKinnon explained in a news release. “What I think is down there in the ocean is rather noxious, very cold, salty and very ammonia-rich almost a syrup.”
Could life survive in such an environment? If we’re talking about life as we know it, probably not.
“It’s no place for germs, much less fish or squid, or any life as we know it,” McKinnon elaborated.
Even microscopic germs don't stand a chance in this cocktail of extreme conditions. Add to all this the fact that as we look out across the galaxy we see that our solar system is the exception rather than the rule. We are not the norm, our system is an oddball. We have discovered over 2.600 planetary systems and none of them are like ours. The system Trappist-1 has seven planets orbiting their star but all 7 roughly Earth sized planets orbit closer to their sun than our inner most planet Mercury orbits our Sun and this is relatively common.
Bill McKinnon, a colleague of Stern and New Horizons team member says this about the theoretical ocean of Pluto.
The New Horizons team previously detected the presence of ammonia on Charon, and also on one of Pluto’s small moons. “So it’s almost certainly inside Pluto,” McKinnon explained in a news release. “What I think is down there in the ocean is rather noxious, very cold, salty and very ammonia-rich almost a syrup.”
Could life survive in such an environment? If we’re talking about life as we know it, probably not.
“It’s no place for germs, much less fish or squid, or any life as we know it,” McKinnon elaborated.
Even microscopic germs don't stand a chance in this cocktail of extreme conditions. Add to all this the fact that as we look out across the galaxy we see that our solar system is the exception rather than the rule. We are not the norm, our system is an oddball. We have discovered over 2.600 planetary systems and none of them are like ours. The system Trappist-1 has seven planets orbiting their star but all 7 roughly Earth sized planets orbit closer to their sun than our inner most planet Mercury orbits our Sun and this is relatively common.
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That leads me back to my original thought,
What in the world is going on in NASA science today? Its as if the more insane the concept the more easily its accepted. Quote from Alan's article Perhaps the equivalent of their “space program” would simply be boring through to the frozen surface of their planet, Stern suggests. Alan, WTF |
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Update June 18 2019 Brian Cox weighed in on this debate today. The key point here is not simply the word life in the universe but "technologically advanced" life and in Brian's statement "galaxy". There is a massive difference between "life" and "advanced life". Microbial life began on Earth 3.5 Ga but complex life didn't begin until 542 million years ago during the Cambrian explosion and it wasn't a gradual shift from microbes to complex life it was geologically instantaneous and everywhere on Earth. Something different took place. What we call intelligent life didn't start until about 2 million years ago or even far more recent than that depending on how you choose to define intelligence. |
Europa Alien Interview. Alan figured it out, leave us in peace
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Plug that hole in our crust before the Al-ian's find us
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Ice ball planets are iceballs because they receive too little sunlight heat and are thus cold and frozen because they are too far from the Sun to melt ice and consequently can't grow plants. Tidal flex can heat them internally but larger quantities of sunlight are needed to sustain plant life. Go into any cave or deep enough into and ocean where there is a lack of sunlight (200 meters) and you will see there is no living plant life. Even hydrothermal vents don't grow plants.
Even without sunlight, most life in the deep sea is still dependent on the sun. The dead organic matter on which these animals and bacteria feed ultimately comes from phytoplankton and other plants and organisms that harness sunlight to create energy in a process called photosynthesis.
Instead of sunlight, hydrothermal vent life relies on hydrogen sulfide - more commonly known as rotten egg gas and toxic to most land-based life. In a process called chemosynthesis, specialized bacteria create energy from the hydrogen sulfide present in the mineral-rich water pouring out of the vents. These bacteria form the bottom level of the food chain in these ecosystems, upon which all other vent animals are dependent.
Chemosynthetic bacteria are organisms that use inorganic molecules as a source of energy and convert them into organic substances. Chemosynthetic bacteria, unlike plants, obtain their energy from the oxidation of inorganic molecules, rather than photosynthesis. Chemosynthetic bacteria use inorganic molecules, such as ammonia, molecular hydrogen, sulfur, hydrogen sulfide and ferrous iron, to produce the organic compounds needed for their subsistence. Larger vent life animals survive off these bacteria but my point is, there is no plant life where there is no sunlight. Iceball worlds are too cold and too far from Suns light to produce plant life.
No plants = no trees, no trees = no animals (monkeys), no monkeys = no people, no trees = no wood or coal, no wood = no fire, no fire = no smelting iron ore from anhydrous rock, no iron ore = no metals, no metals = no magnetism, no metal/magnetism = no controlled radio waves, no radio waves = no space signals, no space signals = no ET phone home. Frozen water worlds, even with hydrothermal vents, start with a serious handicap for producing technologically advanced intelligent life.
Even without sunlight, most life in the deep sea is still dependent on the sun. The dead organic matter on which these animals and bacteria feed ultimately comes from phytoplankton and other plants and organisms that harness sunlight to create energy in a process called photosynthesis.
Instead of sunlight, hydrothermal vent life relies on hydrogen sulfide - more commonly known as rotten egg gas and toxic to most land-based life. In a process called chemosynthesis, specialized bacteria create energy from the hydrogen sulfide present in the mineral-rich water pouring out of the vents. These bacteria form the bottom level of the food chain in these ecosystems, upon which all other vent animals are dependent.
Chemosynthetic bacteria are organisms that use inorganic molecules as a source of energy and convert them into organic substances. Chemosynthetic bacteria, unlike plants, obtain their energy from the oxidation of inorganic molecules, rather than photosynthesis. Chemosynthetic bacteria use inorganic molecules, such as ammonia, molecular hydrogen, sulfur, hydrogen sulfide and ferrous iron, to produce the organic compounds needed for their subsistence. Larger vent life animals survive off these bacteria but my point is, there is no plant life where there is no sunlight. Iceball worlds are too cold and too far from Suns light to produce plant life.
No plants = no trees, no trees = no animals (monkeys), no monkeys = no people, no trees = no wood or coal, no wood = no fire, no fire = no smelting iron ore from anhydrous rock, no iron ore = no metals, no metals = no magnetism, no metal/magnetism = no controlled radio waves, no radio waves = no space signals, no space signals = no ET phone home. Frozen water worlds, even with hydrothermal vents, start with a serious handicap for producing technologically advanced intelligent life.
Three days later.
Yesterday I joined a friend at a local bar (pub), a couple pints of truth serum loosened my lips and I began explaining this page to him.
I explained Alan's position as well as mine.
Alan's position
The lack of intelligent technologically advanced aliens attempting to communicating is being thwarted because they live below frozen ice ball planets with oceans created by tidal flex energy through thermal vents. Their space program is swimming to the top of their ocean, drilling holes in the ice then peeking out at the universe. Hence the Fermi paradox is addressed, "Where's everybody?". They're on ice, just chillin or at least under it.
My position
Advanced communication technology begins with a wire and a magnet in oscillation (controlled electron movement).
A wire comes from metals extracted from rocks by fire.
Fire comes from photosynthesis and plants on top of soil.
Dexterous limbs are required not fins or pincher claws to assemble or shape complex structures.
Advanced intelligence is required to control fire and other elements to create technologically advanced items.
Ice ball water worlds have too little light to grow plants on or below the surface, at 40 to 100 K they are too cold for plants, metals can't be extracted from rock in freezing cold water. Any heat delivered would be through thermal vents not sunlight.
My buddy's position,
anything is possible and we don't know what's out there.
I tried to explain, we know some things about what's out there.
We know the elements in the periodic table which we find here on Earth are the same elements in the rest of the universe.
I got the puzzled confused look.
Yesterday I joined a friend at a local bar (pub), a couple pints of truth serum loosened my lips and I began explaining this page to him.
I explained Alan's position as well as mine.
Alan's position
The lack of intelligent technologically advanced aliens attempting to communicating is being thwarted because they live below frozen ice ball planets with oceans created by tidal flex energy through thermal vents. Their space program is swimming to the top of their ocean, drilling holes in the ice then peeking out at the universe. Hence the Fermi paradox is addressed, "Where's everybody?". They're on ice, just chillin or at least under it.
My position
Advanced communication technology begins with a wire and a magnet in oscillation (controlled electron movement).
A wire comes from metals extracted from rocks by fire.
Fire comes from photosynthesis and plants on top of soil.
Dexterous limbs are required not fins or pincher claws to assemble or shape complex structures.
Advanced intelligence is required to control fire and other elements to create technologically advanced items.
Ice ball water worlds have too little light to grow plants on or below the surface, at 40 to 100 K they are too cold for plants, metals can't be extracted from rock in freezing cold water. Any heat delivered would be through thermal vents not sunlight.
My buddy's position,
anything is possible and we don't know what's out there.
I tried to explain, we know some things about what's out there.
We know the elements in the periodic table which we find here on Earth are the same elements in the rest of the universe.
I got the puzzled confused look.
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Light carries, within it, spectral lines of absorption similar to a barcode identifying the elements within stars and planetary atmospheres during ocultation.
This means we can know that the same stuff we work with here on Earth exists out there with the primary differences amongst them being the effect pressure and temperature has had on them. Yeah but anything is possible. |
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How would fins be used to build a radio?
Fire doesn't burn in water. Plants need sunlight for photosynthesizes. Yeah but anything is possible. Then it dawned on me. If the truth sets you free, lies similar to ignorance enslave you. The more we live in ignorance the easier it is to accept and believe anything because we have no foundation of our own to stand on. My poor friend with his "yeah but anything is possible" response is like a leaf blowing in the wind tossed and turned, flipped and flopped because he has a lack of knowledge to stand on so yeah anything is possible becomes the mantra of the uninformed. |
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Here's another cool party science trick,
Boil water over a flame in a paper cup. Paper easily burns when placed over a flame but place water in or on it and it will not burn until the water is gone. Water evaporates at 100 C or 212 F, evaporation is the process of removing heat. When the water evaporates it takes the heat of fire away from the paper preventing it from reaching its burning point temperature. Here's a one minute video showing you how this works. |
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I continued to try to explain some facts to my friend.
Some things simply are not possible while others are required.
After all we haven't found any intelligent life yet anywhere. |
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Finding exoplanets is easy, finding those that favor the conditions for life is not, of those planets we've found there are no detectable radio waves. Now consider how much more unlikely it is that a frozen cold ice ball world with unfavorable conditions for intelligent life would have intelligent technologically advanced life.
As far as I can tell this theory of Alan's is so improbable as to be nearly impossible.
Yeah but anything is possible.
This phrase must be like a warm blanket comforting its user's ignorance like a shield in a torrential gale storm of facts.
No need to study, to work at education, to acquire knowledge, to think rationally, critically, logically, because, you know!..., anything is possible.
How about probable.
How probable is it that technologically advanced civilizations are mostly, predominantly living in ice ball water worlds and that's why ET has not phoned Earth? This is Alan's reason for the silence, a myriad set of unfavorable conditions for life have placed an ice cap on the planet preventing communication. But those planets potentially favorable to life identified so far along with the billions of unidentified habitable planets in our galaxy have no intelligent technologically advanced societies transmitting signals. Talk about grasping at straws.
As far as I can tell this theory of Alan's is so improbable as to be nearly impossible.
Yeah but anything is possible.
This phrase must be like a warm blanket comforting its user's ignorance like a shield in a torrential gale storm of facts.
No need to study, to work at education, to acquire knowledge, to think rationally, critically, logically, because, you know!..., anything is possible.
How about probable.
How probable is it that technologically advanced civilizations are mostly, predominantly living in ice ball water worlds and that's why ET has not phoned Earth? This is Alan's reason for the silence, a myriad set of unfavorable conditions for life have placed an ice cap on the planet preventing communication. But those planets potentially favorable to life identified so far along with the billions of unidentified habitable planets in our galaxy have no intelligent technologically advanced societies transmitting signals. Talk about grasping at straws.
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I'd rather stand for something and be dead wrong rather than mindlessly accept everything with "anything is possible".
When I take a stand, I am persistently challenged to test the correctness of my position. I Change my stand when facts don't support it but taking a stand in the first place is what drives my evaluation of its strengths and weaknesses. At least standing for something puts you in the game while swaying with the breeze puts you in the bleachers as a spectator. I suppose there's some comfort in being a bystander as you get to function as an armchair quarter back or back seat driver dispensing opinions without personal commitment or cost. |
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Accepting everything without filtering it might seem like a more accepting and enlightened approach to life but it's really just simple laziness, its fear based.
Water, Terra, Fire, THINK!!! A day latter |
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The TV show Expedition Unknown is running a special on aliens called The Hunt for Extraterrestrials (painful to watch).
At the beginning of episode four they capture, wait for it, wait for it, proof of aliens flying a spaceship around a bird man statue on Easter Island. Their amazing UFO footage looks identical to what UFOer's call rods. Watch this entire five minute video to see what rods actually are, watch to the end. |
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Throughout the video pay attention to all the expert opinions describing these alien UFO's (interdimensional beings, projectiles). It amazes me how ignorance can be presented as intelligence with such authoritative conviction and delivered in such a convincing manner.
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Take out the ignorance by simply using a high speed camera run in tandem with a slow speed camera and all this UFO hype and proof looks as stupid as it is.
Its simply blurred camera images due to slow shutter speed and fast moving insects. Interdimensional beings, how spooky, how mysterious and yet how enlightened this fool sounds. Pseudo experts literally pull this stupid shit out their ass and feed it to the easily duped. I believe, I believe. my alien god, I believe. After all, anything is possible right? |
My night on a beach in Kauai smoking a bone and experimenting with camera exposure time
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In episode one of Josh Gates aliens show they show some Egyptian hieroglyphs that look like a boat a tank and a helicopter and this is supposed to be supportive evidence of aliens giving the Egyptians advanced knowledge as if aliens flew helicopters.
Watch the video TV shows like this alien version of Expedition Unknown should be banned as it serves no purpose but to confuse the ignorant and gullible. Now add to that comments from scientists like Alan Stern and you have a society of confused people not knowing what to believe. |
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On my Nuts page I show how closely, child like faith in aliens, religion and science is tied to ignorance. If you haven't read it check it out. |
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I don't want to come across like I'm a smart feller, I'm not. I simply choose to commit to a position then disassemble its ideology tear it apart and work out its weaknesses. From there I decide whether or not to keep the concept as viable or toss it aside. This is my learning process. I have to take a stand or position on an issue or concept or else I won't tear it apart. Many people feel like that process makes me come across as stubborn or arrogant. I do stubbornly commit to an idea until I find that idea too weak to sustain my commitment but I welcome contradictory concepts.
Its like hardening steel, the more you heat and pound it and drive out the impurities the stronger and purer it gets. The metal has to be stressed before it can serve a useful purpose. For me, not committing to a position is like standing in a forge looking at a piece of steel and not even bothering to pick it up. Similar to ideas and concepts, steel needs to be handled, heated, tempered, beaten, quenched and tested if it is to serve any lasting useful purpose.
Its like hardening steel, the more you heat and pound it and drive out the impurities the stronger and purer it gets. The metal has to be stressed before it can serve a useful purpose. For me, not committing to a position is like standing in a forge looking at a piece of steel and not even bothering to pick it up. Similar to ideas and concepts, steel needs to be handled, heated, tempered, beaten, quenched and tested if it is to serve any lasting useful purpose.
